Transcript of this talk: Tirthankar Dash With Vishal Gondal
M: From trying to write his resume to discovering his inner self that actually helped him write and Iām not kidding, 180 page resume of himself. Through this resume, he found his story that he was so longing to hear and in turn found the meaning of his own existence. Well, I know for all this sounds very complicated. Iām sure all of us struggle writing, even a one-page resume, but it is true. This man has a hundred in Eighty page. Apart from that, he loves running and he has run several marathons in all kinds of ultra marathons, but more than all of this one thing about my guest today, which is none other than Dash or what we call him Tirthankar Dash, who is a Storyteller and his job is to know your story and help you discover yourself in your own language. More interestingly Dash also has a very unique quality that he has the calmness of a sage, knowledge of Monk, but heās as sharp as a sword. *Music* So welcome to the show Dash.
R: Thank you very much. Vishal. I think Iāve got no first three pages of my resume now rebuilt.
M: Absolutely. We really, really need to build your resume but adding more interestingly I know a lot of people know you as that the guy who runs this amazing research company, but I know you something very differently. We first met when you were running frantically on Marine Drive. Tell me, did you run today?
R: Yes, I get up in the morning in Bombay and I canāt stop from, you know, smelling the sea in the morning. So, at 5:30-a quarter. I mean, itās it little addiction that I carry. So, I must be honest, all of us carry little addictions that find addiction. So, thatās my little addiction.
M: So you ran on Marine?
R: Itās from Peddler to Marine Drive and back. Nice, 12 km.
M: I did a 9 km on Marine Drive
R: Really?
M: I was on Marine Drive itself, but I started late. I was like at 6:30.
R: Okay
M: Again, Iām training for the Mumbai Marathon right now.
R: Oh!
M: Are you running for that?
R: Oh no, no. No, Iām not so.
M: So what is the next marathon that youāre running?
R: Iām doing the two oceans in South Africa.
M: Two oceans in South Africa?
R: Yeah.
M: Whatās that?
R: Itās an ultra marathon that you run at the edge of Africa when you move from one ocean to the other.
M: Ooh! So the Cape of Good Hope?
R: Yeah, Cape of Good Hope.
M: Wow.
R: So, I want to conserve my energy is for that.
M: When is that happening?
R: Thatās in April.
M: Wow. So running is your tonic. You call it your meditation, your ritual. How did you get into running?
R: Accidentally, sir. It was…thanks to one of my friends who told me to give some money for a charity. You may not run but you know, why donāt you just put some money in. So I put some money and said that now that Iāve paid, I must extract the value of that. So it was a 10-kilometer charity run from Priyadarshini Park to somewhere. And I told my driver to just hang around there. I know Iām not going to do more than three kilometers. So I donāt just want to embarrass myself beyond a point. So I said, āyou just wait here. Let me just go and give it a shot.ā I just wanted to feel what it means to run. And so I ran- three, four, five, six, and I was like, man, this is not so bad! Itās just a whole different part of my body enjoying itself. And came back, did the 10K and I did it in good time. And I was… the person who was most surprised with myself. So things the morning, I woke up and (3:50-3:52 ā unclear), bought myself the fanciest shoes and started running. And I started. In six months, I ran my first marathon. So from not running at all…
M: Doing the 42.
R: To doing a 42 in six months. So itās been one of the most fascinating. So you have the ability to surprise yourself.
M: This was which year?
R: This was 7 years back.
M: So almost in 2011-2010?
R: 2011. Yeah.
M: And you were also a part of Striders, the same group that we used to run together ā
R: Yeah. Actually it was quite funny, with Striders, I must tell you a story there.
M: Yeah.
R: So, I started running like a maniac so I used to do about 60-70 km a week from the time I started running. So I just realized I could run and kind of a natural-born ability that I carried. Then I started having aches and pains in my body. I said now I must go and meet someone who knows what Ihat should be doing as a runner? So walked into Striders and I met Deepak. He said, āso do you want to run?ā I said, āyeah.ā He asked, āHow long have you been running?ā I said, āabout a month.ā
M: (chuckles)
R: Yeah and he said, āso how much do you run?ā I said āabout 70 km.ā and he was like, āwhatās wrong with you?
M: (laughs)
R: So I was probably the first guy he slowed down. He was like, āno, no, no. You are not going to run 70, you are going to run 20.ā Iām like, ā I donāt know how to run 20.ā So he had to pull me back and slowly skill up. So it was great fun.
M: Your first marathon was a Mumbai.
R: Yes, it was Mumbai.
M: But you know, this talk is not about your marathon running. We know you can do that in your walk, in your sleep. Iām more interested in knowing, how did you write a 180 page resume and what was the first page and the last page about?
R: Right. Well, thatās very, very personal story. Actually. It starts with the collapse of my ego. I mean, that said, a lot of good journeys start very āegodisedā.
M: But youāre like, you know, the catās whiskers that you scored really well in your in your CAT exams.
R: Yeah, all of that. So the cat happened then the levers happened, corporate world happened. And so, you know, what they do is the pump you up a bit and all of that. I mean, so you start thinking, youāre invincible and somewhere society, kind of fans that fire and you start… you start feeling that, you know, you can you can do it all and then I did that and I became an entrepreneur at the age of 32. Being an entrepreneur is not bad, it is just that there was arrogance behind it, which was not necessarily the healthiest of things. So what happened there was a lot of it is grace, faith, what they called synchronicity, so I was in the petrochemicals business that was the year when crude oil shot up from $40 to $140.
M: Yeah.
R: And things tumbled around me all over the place. And so, in spite of all the strategy, you know, the BCG matrices and blah blah, blah, everything that I had learned that ā āOh, no. If I have all this tool kit, Iāll design businesses.ā Things collapsed and collapsed in a way that I had not prepared myself for
M: But I mean people do fail in businesses all the time. Itās not like-
R: Yeah
M: Itās not like a new thing, but you know, why did your ego had to collapse?
R: You have because there are two failures, one is the external failure, the other is internal failure and they are two completely different things. So when you fail in your own faith, thatās a huge failure. Entrepreneurs fail, which is perfectly fine, but thatās like a game lost, which is very different from what am I doing here. And what is the next game I should play? I didnāt have an answer to that question.
M: But you are in the similar situation. I remember, even when you finished your college and you didnāt get into, IIM.
R: Correct.
M: So how did you face that?
R: Well, that was because, you know, so I came out of a small little town and didnāt have the confidence.
M: Rourkela?
R: Itās actually a village little away from Rourkela. So Rourkela is where I went to study, it was 60 km from Rourkela. My father, ran a small Hospital of 20 beds. And so, I mean ā
M: So 60 km is where your…that was distance between your school and your home?
R: Yes. Yes, I used to travel one and a half hours every day in a bus to school, and come back again. So itās through the jungle. So that was the journey, a bunch of us were there. There was a little township called Binmitrapur and we used to drive.
M: How did your dad an end up there?
R: Well, he was a government doctor in Odisha and he jumped from one place to the other. He ran a small Health Care thing and then when he started going to villages where they were no schools, at some point he said listen, I have to quit the government job so that you guys can study, me, my sister and my brother. So he quit that job to join of small Mining Company because he could create stability for his family and an English medium school for his kids. He set up a small little hospital for the mining company at 20 barrel hospital. So, he lived there for 30 years in that hospital. And so, I grew up in that small little town.
M: Not even a town. You canāt call it a town.
R: Yeah, itās a little Hamlet of sorts and so I can speak tribal, you know, Southeri language. And so we grew up with all of that. I, of course, studied a lot, but I didnāt interact to the world in a way that, you know, you guys would have in the big cities. So, I had a really low and confidence. So while the CAT happened, I struggled with the ability…
M: And you were like, very good. You have a very high score on CAT.
R: Yeah, but, you know, I failed in the group discussions in the college. I didnāt have the, you know, the way to speak on my way into the colleges there. So the CAT score was good but when you sit in front of 12, boys and girls from Bombay and Delhi
M: and have a debate over discussion
R: I would dare say it is the most challenging part.
M: I canāt imagine you not having a discussion. I mean, this is very difficult to catch up with you in a discussion now.
R: Yeah, but you know, thatās the gym that you visit. So when youāre challenged, some people jump up and so thatās been my biggest Acts of Feudalism, āall right, I canāt do it or can I do it? And then I would say, listen,
M: And then you become the best at it.
R: Yeah, you work, here, you grew those muscles. And if you push yourself, I mean, thatās been the trick in my life. Like, when I am faced with a challenge, I go to the depths of it. I donāt say, Iām going to run away from it. So when I fail, Iām like Iām going to go to the depths of a thing. Where do I work from? And thatās a good question to ask saying āWhat part of me failed?ā and itās a good question to ask because did my attitude failure or does my skill fail?
M: But there arenāt many people who face this problem of not good English or confidence. Not everybody is able to Dance. I mean for them, this failure becomes the biggest problem of their life and they get into a shell and all of that, right? So, what could they have done differently. What you did to come out of this?
R: I think, you have to start loving yourself. You must fall in love with who you are. Okay, thatās the first love and the last. I mean, the idea is being…
M: Extremely selfish?
R: Completely selfish with the SELF in capital, you know, the self. And you must honor at that, the idea of the self. And this idea of failure then is like, know, how do I strengthen myself in some ways and my relationship with myself has been deep all along, as a child as a teen. So when failure happens, I work hard it with the self again. I go back to the self. Itās my monastery of self, as I call it. Thatās where I live.
M: Monastery of self?
R: Yeah, monastery of self. I live there. Iām the only person in that Monastery. I have to work with myself. I am the wizard and Iām the student there.
M: Okay.
R: I have never visited religion for answers. Iāve never visited, you know, gurus and all, as I always have felt that you have to exercise with yourself and the failures are due-
M: At the time you were like 18 or 19? What do-
R: So, you know-
M: These monasteries have been operational since then?
R: All along. So my default mode is go work within. Go work within because you control that. I mean, Iām a design guy, they call it. I mean, well, I donāt control the world, I control myself. So I have to work with my variables that I know. These variables that I donāt know, I canāt control that. So, I mean, for you to control the variables, you should know what the variables are. So if I need to work on communication or this, I worked my way into it. So itās something that you must tell yourself that the āmeā is not an abstract idea. Itās like a real, tangible idea for me.
M: And then you ended up in Goa?
R: Yeah.
M: How was that? From Odisha, hamlet or a village to be in the party capital of India.
R: I know, I know. It sort of unlocked the new me in some ways, because In Odisha, I thought I was a trapped guy. I was like, no one knows me and all of that. And suddenly I landed up in Goa and the world expands and I mean, met friends. I met friends whoāve been with friends all along with me and people understood my abstractions. In Odisha, people were like what are you talking about? You know, what are you thinking? There is no one would… I wouldnāt resonate but in Goa, apart from the parties and the stubble. Because, yeah, that was there. But I met, you know, people who understood my abstractions.
M: Everything makes sense in Goa somehow.
R: Everything just comes to us. Itās beautiful, the beach and you know, you sit there and of course, there were the parts that you donāt want to talk about.
M: (laughs)
R: And then it liberates you, the spirit of what the people in 60s did stays. The flaw movement-
M: So how did you end up there? So if all the IIMs rejected you, what was the turning point in Goa of accepting you?
R: Iād no other choice.
(Laughs)
M: They didnāt have a group discussion.
R: They didnāt have a group discussion. So what the professors did was that he said that Iām going to give you all 10 minutes to talk about a topic, that liberated me. I was like, now I can talk if you give me an idea and I could share. So the trick to go over there was no group discussion. So I managed to enter that space without the struggle.
M: It would have been a big loss to humanity if Goa had a group discussion.
R: No, not about that. I would have, I would have not enjoyed Goa parties, the big loss to me, the bucket of fish, kept me going on. And the food of Goa is so amazing. Itās like heaven on Earth.
M: So you donāt make it IIM.
R: Yeah.
M: And you go to Goa institute. I donāt know how rated or underrated the school is, Iām not a MBA guy.
R: You donāt have to worry about that.
M: But then how did you get your first job?
R: I did not.
M: You did not?
R: I did not get my first job. I like this idea of Concepts and Brands and ideas. And so I was the guy in college. I would probably have been the only guy in my business school who decided not to apply for jobs because the finance job to marketing jobs and I was very clear about the kind of work I wanted to do, which was…
M: Exactly! how can you be so clear, man? even Iām not clear even today. In what I want to do at times.
R: You should ask my friends. If I have always used, Iāve maintained whatās called the Diary of me. And even today, I would tell you that, you know, I always track, you know, the thing called, whatās it looking like?
M: So you are doing, you know, self tracking and Quantified Self, even before this word was invented
R: It was part of my limbic system- this tracking of me. And, you know, if you, if you visited me in my childhood, you would see walls full of Doodles. I was a dyslexic kid, but I would sketch everything out saying, āoh itās how my day is going to look like.
M: So you were like the planner number 101, you planned everything.
R: Yeah, Iām an obsessive planner.
M: Wow.
R: which is why planning life is the easiest.
M: The only thing in my plan is that I donāt plan.
R: I mean, the Spontaneity at the end of planning is different from Spontaneity in the beginning of Life. I mean, so if you like order in my life. These things that I want to do.
M: I enjoy chaos. I thrive in chaos, which is if things are in order, I have a problem. (Laughs) Yeah, but letās talk about, you know, your thoughts. You have planned everything out, right? So, whatever is happening in your life today, Iām sure this was already being one of your plans.
R: So there is a base plan and after that there is magic. So what happens is you create a base plan, you know, like this is where Iām going to operate from what I call, ‘where home?ā
M: So in Goa you made this base plan.
R: Yeah.
M: So what was the base plan?
R: The Base plan was to go out and find a place where I would thrive in. What was called, āwhat are the creative job?ā And I will looking for a creative job.
M: But you plan and the planners and all these people are not creative, man.
R: They are.
M: I thought creatives are the people who do not have timelines, they are like I will gather whenever an idea comes to me.
R: I mean, Vishal, creativity is operative.
M: Creativity cannot be planned.
R: So what happens is, once you create a base, which is, you know, if things are taken care of, your mind is free. You know, itās the mind that travels creativity is the mind that travels. Now, once you create them ā
M: Send your mind to a holiday.
R: Correct.
M: On a holiday, by planning the holiday.
R: I plan it all out. So in that space, I create vacuum for me to think and then I am not thinking about ā
M: I think people have a shortcut to do that, right? They take psychedelic drugs and a lot of that.
R: Absolutely.
M: (laughs) So isnāt that what youāre saying?
R: Absolutely, you know, the dose of perception is that, I mean, you know, you go through that portal and you vanish into that world.
M: So are you saying that if I just start planning heavily, I can make it into-
R: Things will fall off because they will become irrelevant. So, you know, what you will do is you plan your way out of things that donāt matter to you and then youāll stay within that creative space that brings you joy. So I donāt plan my fatherhood, how Iām going to manage my child, I donāt think about that. I create a home where I can flourish as a father, letās say, I am thinking along those lines. You get security from your own head. And the other thing is the idea of awareness, planning is also linked to awareness.
R: ā¦The idea of awareness, planning is also linked to awarenessā¦that who I am and today you will say why do we we do thatā¦readā¦why do we carry a character, it must be coming from somewhere. There must be a plan that is designed and that comes in terms with that plan of yours but no matter your plan is growing, this one there in the background all the time
M: so it is like your underlined operating system that is thereā¦
R: Your OS is thereā¦that is being to anchor yourselfā¦that is why it there, the purposeā¦whatās your operating system, whether itās your attitude, your personality whatever that isā¦from there you are the most creative
M: then your apps can work efficiently
R: absolutely, your OS system is upgradedā¦once in while so whatās nextā¦
M: so how did you landed in your next job, you were telling me
R: yeah so I was exploring and there was an ad agency which told me of an apprenticeship and if I would join thatā¦that sounded interesting you know cause adsā¦so I tried thatā¦being the CEO and nex thing you are is a courier boy so that is how big the fall is ā¦so after being the CEO the next thing that I did was carrying art works to clients offices and running and making sure of that
M: Do a signature here and there and stuff
R: Signature and you know getting slapped by the creative agency and after that thisā¦
M: This was in Bombay?
R: Calcutta it wasā¦
M: Calcutta? Calcutta is the most sleepy city to be in existence
R: And I thought it was the most creative townā¦people with a thinking power live thereā¦
M: When this thinking goes deep, problems emerge
R: Very fastā¦then I collected all of stuff and leftā¦for Bangalore
M: yeah Calcuttaā¦doing work there is impossible
R: you know, thought is act in calcutta, so when thought becomes action. So, we donāt have to do after that
M: exactly
R: the action equals thought. So the calcutta is gonna have a cup of tea. work is done, because Iāve thought of it
So, I went to calcutta and I realise that Iām not gonna go anywhere in calcutta. Iāll move to banglore. Move from advertising to marketing and started looking at innovation, marketing, brands..
M: but that is again traditional. Right? I mean,
R: All of that. Yeah
M: so I mean, in a way what you did that is not followed traditional path, this is not non-traditional path
R: exactly
M: advertising and then brand
R: correct
M: you first work for a client and then you work for an agency, then you work for a client.
R: correct. So, like I said, my life , as I see my broad life of 44 years has 3 parts
The first part, like you said was hitting goa. Like you said was this what I called that, is life of a dreamer. I was dreaming, where will I go
The second life was that of a conquerer. I wanted to conquer the way, the world is conquered. So you know you got Intelligence, your brain starts on the corporate world . Be an entrepreneur is the peak of that conquererās job
M: so after your success at Unilever is where
R: yes, Unilever, pepsi, vipro
M: wow, all these company and then you said forget all these, Iām gonna start my own company
R: yeah, I mean, join a bunch of people. Be an entrepreneur
M: yeah, and you started that idea and that idea completely tanged
R: yes, yes
M: so how did you come to this petrochemical, idea first of all. I mean, howās that connected with everything youāre doing
R: like I said, the creators sell such as for that you donāt understand. I mean they knew reach out to those. You know, I knew the soaps and the shampoos. I did not know
M: okay
R: whatās fun in that pal. I mean in selling soap and oil. I will be getting bored of, I wanted deeper challenges. I always search for you know what next big mountain to conquer. So at that point petrochemical was a big enough mountain. You know I need to understand what all these things are. One soap sells for ā¹10, petrochemical deal sells for 10 million. I mean so I wanted to understand what is the big picture of business thatās what took me there.
M: okay
R: but of course didnāt work out but it was a fascinating world of how that, you know business is not selling of a soap has its own story, selling of a shampoo is it own, dis selling of you know
M: barrels
R: barrels. you know, calenz of fuel is a different story altogether
M: but you said that you planned all of this, so what did you planned and what did you nit planned?
R: planned, I hand planned the journey of where, I mean so I wanted to do climb up faster. I mean, I could see that ladder butI didnāt know where I was going with that but that plan failed honestly and so when that plan fails and anxiety is much deeper
M: no but I mean, you know at 32 this was a late 90s to early 20s, where man was
R: yes 2005
M: 2005, that point of time at age of 32 setting up of a company itself is a big deal, right
R: yeah, it was a really big deal
M: and did you kind of raise money for this or how did you
R: yeah yeah
M: so this was like completely funded start up
R: completely funded start up, we brought out a small, little venture, we put money into it. We started billing it. it was a off shoot of the advance. Finally it was downstream company from there
M: but why did you give that up? I mean, as you said right, thinks donāt work, you keep fixing it until it works. Thatās the approach right
R: yeah, yeah. Correct. So Iāll tell you the crisis was much deeper. So I had a life crisis, and thatās really the tipping but itās not failure of entrepreneurship, it was not the failure of that business, it was failure of my own inner self that triggered this journey into where Iām today
M: bbut how does that shattered your ego! What was that linked in
R: was that my plan failed
M: okay
R: you see when youāre in love with your plan and plan fails. Youāre like, what next I mean
M: In start-up worldworld, what weāre trying to do, we just fail, fail fail
R: yeah
M:fail fast and keep looking
R: absolutely
M: right
R: absolutely, so thatās the external failure right. Internal failure is different that how could you I not crack it. How to I want to do another startup, if I fail again I have to plan another start up so thatās the question but Ihad a question on the operating system that what operating system Iām I using to work on that start up, are there other models available for me, for a business model concept I would say, do I do this or so I do something completely different.
M: okay
R: in some ways that I didnāt want to make a series of mistakes for the shake of
M: but, just try to help me understand this, youāre kid from a tribal area in odissa
R: yeah
M: you comes to goa and then does all this and then is already developing operating system.
R: yeah, it was
M: how does this operating system idea come from you reading some book Or what was the origin of this ?
R: yeah so, see that is again other that running the other addition I was reading
M: oh
R: and I think where I, you know. Letās say you can see the distance because youāre sitting in the shoulder of giant and…
M: So which book influenced you the most?
R: Oh, As I grew up, of course there were different books, The first book was my grandfatherās geeta.
M: Oh, wow.
R:(24:54-24:56- inaudible) we use to sit in the courtyard of my hometown, my little hothereere, we used to talk about it. And by the way he gifted me a geeta which was written by an atheist.
M: Wow.
R: Like, geeta is a book of life. Donāt think it is a religious book.
M: It suppose to be the best MBA, management lesson in the world.
R: Absolutely.
The horses are your senses (25:22-25:25- inaudible) is your mother. So it started with something as cryptic as that. I think he has putten me in the gene of learning, probably grand Dad that design the big work around my brain.
M: But tell me again at 32, you were young enough but, you know, when your ego was shattered , so how did you doā¦ so how did you fix that?
R: I couldnāt fix it actually, I was in depression , I wish I could fix it, I was struggling and I was in depression, I wish I could fix it, I was struggling the way that what people classifies as clinical depression today.
M: Oh. And that you got married also around the same time.
R:No, No I have been married at 19 years.
M: Oh, wow. So this is like…
R: This was the year my son was coming to meet us.
M: Oh.
R: You must understand the biggest context of it. My wife said she was pregnant, and my business was not working and I had no money in the bank so it was like this a perfect storm in my life.
M: So where did you meet you wife? Was that planned too?
R: Calcutta.
M: Calcutta.. Ok.
Calcutta at least got you same result.
R: Yes, the ROI in Calcutta is the highest.
M: what was she doing in Calcutta?
R: She was a media Planner in the agency where I was working as a courier boy. (Laughs)
M: Well, I must say you got a big package from there.
R: Totally, and of course that continue to hang around, so lovely gift, she had been in love with meā¦ a journey along 19 years.
M: So how did you overcome your challenge atā¦
R: at 32?
M: yeah.
R: So what happened was like, people who know me know how inner I get about finding answers to my questions. I mean deep in my mind, I am a problem solver like I need to find the root of it. And it is so obsessive, compulsive behaviour in me. like I must find out, whatās my operating system. So.. there were many different ā¦No actually I sat down to write my resume.. I was like No let me see where I can find a decent job.. Because wife said she was pregnant and a kid was coming to my house.. So it was a very naturalā¦ and then I couldnāt write my resuming because I donāt know what to put there. I was not a marketing person, entrepreneur , engineer, am not advertising person waiter there was so many layers to this person I donāt know where it was anchored in and that disturbed me a lot thatās a tipping point it was not any other thing.. It was Inability to answer the question to who am I.
M: In monastery of ‘I’.
R: In monastery of āIā. So I had to find answers to this question. I asked my wife, who am Iā¦and sheās like you always do this, you have gone madā¦my mother knows it, I have been the same person who is this much irrationality stuck up and questionsā¦they are like just go up and look for a job somewhere
M: Just Google itā¦
R: Yeah and it was all like thisā¦no no no I need to find an answer. People wouldnāt know me asā¦ that I will go that extra mile. So I went to Gondwa and scriptures all that to readā¦and then I went to Rishikesh
M: Wow
R: The answer is in Rishikesh andā¦
M: Why would there be a answer thereā¦why not place like Delhi or Bombay?
R: Because you knowā¦do you know about astronomy?
M: The stars yeah?
R: Yesā¦where are the stars?
M: The sky
R: yeah where is the setup?
M: open areaā¦I guess?
R: Open areas and mountain topsā¦because that is where itās less noiseā¦so you can absorb better..
M: itās about the signalsā¦
R: So find yourself a place like this andā¦
M: Varanasi is a place which is chaotic, traffic, cowā¦everywhereā¦
R: not quite
M: While Rishikesh is a place like thatā¦
R: yes it isā¦it is more about the noise inside us rather than insideā¦and mountains in a way arenāt that quiet
R: People run there because they search for that. I didn’t find that silence. That is a different issue.
M: Why Rishikesh, why not Sun temple in Konark? Why is not Visakhapatnam and Kanyakumari?
R: I was driven by the Hindu scripture.
M: What was in the Rishikesh?
R: There was a Sivananda ashram. There was a course.
M: You want there to attend a course in the ashram.
R: I didn’t go there randomly because my wife was pregnant at the time. I had a list of questions to answer. I listed down everything. I read this scripture earlier. I could go to monks in the morning.
M: Monks must be thinking are you serious about that? What are those questions?
R: What is the right action? How do I know what is my right action? How do I decide? I want to know what peace is. I pull down many things. (Inaudible) I just want to know what is this…
M: You are that type of student.
R: I thought these guys had the answer to this. I went there with lots of questions. There was a monk who was a psychologist.
M: A psychologist monk.
R: He said don’t bother spirituality with your stupid question. He recommended I read psychology. This is transcendence. This is not engagement. How do I engage with the world? You could gift me a book. He said you had to read this book. That book was the switch.
M: What does it say?
R: Viktor Franklin is a guy. He was caught in a concentration camp. He lost his family there. He was fascinated by that in the concentration camp. (Inaudible) if you are physiological is stronger doesn’t mean that you are psychologically strong. He started finding patterns and people. He called it will to live. He said I must unlock. He called this thing logotherapy. You could find the sense in everything. That book gives me that word called meaning. He said what your name is. That was the most important question. What is a myth? Myth is an image.
M: You have found the answer.
R: After that, I started reading psychology. I have started studying psychology. (Inaudible)
M: What is psychology?
R: It is like science. It is fantastic.
M: Is there any online course?
R: Yes. There are tons of books.
M: Psychology is young in terms of…
R: It is the least understood science above all. Psychology is the most important science for today. When you talk about mental health there is nothing.
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M: You studied psychology. What happened then?
R: After that, I started writing questions. I have 22 questions. I interviewed 52 people about myself. I started interviewing my father, mother, and ex-girlfriends. I asked them about me. I had 22 questions about myself.
M: Those are multiple-choice.
R: Those are qualitative questions.
M: you send them the questions or you sat with them.
R: I said with them. I had a tape recorder with me.
M: I think people say something in front of lessons and something different back of yourself.
R: These are the people who know you genuinely. Your father, your mother, and your friends.
M: Those are not random people.
R: No, those are the people who have psychological data about me.
M: What is the best and what is the worst thing you have heard about you?
R: There are many. You should not be on the earth. You have very little patience.
M: You ask too many questions.
R: You are too much of an idles. This said I cannot do anything. (Inaudible) you can’t be like that. There are some positive things also.
M: I think that is a good exercise. I should try this also. I think every listener should try this. They can start with only 5 questions.
R: I can ask you five questions.
M: Okay.
R: What would be your autobiography title of you?
M: The title is you can if you think you can.
R: I am going to ask you another one. You are in life imprisonment. It could be for 10 or 15 years. You are allowed three objects to carry with you. What would you carry?
M: Can it be electronic objects?
R: You cannot access it. There would be three objects.
M: A book.
R: What book? You have to be very specific.
M: I would say Mahabharat. It has every emotion in it. It can entertain you. I would love to carry a pen. I can write ideas and do things. I would carry some sandalwood. If you rub it on your body then it gives you fragrance and new ideas. It reminds you of the festivities.
R: If we are having dinner tonight and you could invite people from history, who are they?
M: Steve Jobs and Mahatma Gandhi.
R: Okay. If I lock you up in a happiness room and you have to put 5 things in it, what those will be?
M: First of all video games. My kids. I would say, my family. I would need a book, that would be a book about mountains. I would love to carry a yoga mat.
R: Interesting!
M: (Inaudible)
R: What is the Tombstone reads? More confidence than capability.
M: I have asked this question to myself.
R: You have asked them about you.
M: Okay.
R: They are giving you the answers you might not aware of. There is a mind filled full of data. You can touch the tip of who you are. You can know about yourself. This is the thing. You could ask why sandalwood. That will answer you who you are. That’s you are operating from.
M: Oh!
R: If you know all of those, you can design your house. You can design your career. You can design Your next startup because you know where it is coming from.
M: What do you do with these questions?
R: I would call it pattern making. I would call it data mining. You have to do an analysis. Why do I say adventure and drama? At somewhere you will start seeing about yourself.
M: You did this for yourself. What are the results?
R: The result is 180 pages of my resume.
M: What is the first reaction of the interviewer?
R: I have a book of my life. The goal of the write a resume is to get a job. (Inaudible) at the end of that, I met an amazing lady. She asked me what are you doing nowadays. I told her that I am researching about myself. I am used to that response. That energizes me.
M: I think inside searching is a very important topic.
R: I feel I am so lucky. She said you have to work with me.
M: They told you that you should work with them. Who is this lady?
R: (Inaudible) who is the head of a market research company called Quantum consumer solution. It is a research company.
M: Okay.
R: she told me that this is what we are looking for.
M: You have some complicated answers. What does it call?
R: Logotherapy. No, that is ethnography.
M: I feel these words are very new to us.
R: It is a British word. Please go and study the culture. If you can unlock the culture, you will be able to learn something. This is the mastery of understanding people. There are proper ethnographers. The comeback with reports. That’s how they design it.
M: During Vietnam, war America sent some ethnographers to study Vietnamese people. I have recently read this. Ethnographers already said America can never win the war. This started everything and they rejected all the reports. That is something before you can not conquer you cannot study.
R: You need to force psychology and the culture. After that, it is much easier.
M: Psychology is individual and a culture is a group.
R: So the collective psychology is culture. It is the same force.
M: Wow! This lady offers you a job at Quantum. That is the perfect place for you.
R: Yes. That’s the life I live for the last 7 years. I am not doing a job for the last 11 years. I would do it free of cost.
M: Ever since the GOQii idea came I can feel that.
R: I just enjoy doing this. I don’t know anything other than that.
M: When I first told you the idea of GOQii, what did you think?
R: There were two different reactions. One was the reaction about Vishal and what was the reaction about the idea. I always separate the person from the idea. For me, that is a completely different data set. Then you can merge them at some point. I have a fascinating image of you. (Inaudible) you have a little red spark. (Inaudible) you will crack numbers and figures. I don’t know what to do with it. I would qualitatively align this. I always think it is a true combination. You married the two science in one bucket. The idea of a game always energizes me. Conceptually it is a game. My fundamental belief is simulation.
M: We all are living in simulation according to the Lama.
R: In Vedantu always said the same thing. What is the illusion of Maya and Leela? It is an eternal playground. There will be many episodes of that. You just don’t have to worry about it. I think that is fascinating. It is beyond the game.
M: We call it metagaming.
R: It is a cool way to look at the world. It is a fun way. It is a joy. It is the anxiety of life. I feel that is good.
M: (Inaudible)
R: I think you should distribute the quality of yours. We all are teachers. What you teach is up to you. Whatever your master distribute that.
M: My father always told me Gyan is the main thing. I think that is the whole idea of the broadcast. I might be able to learn and get it. You can be in a cave or something and talking about this is amazing.
R: Be the force of your life. Be the energy of your life. I remember you I spoke about some mountains. (Inaudible) I like the attitude you carry. Everyone has something in them. I think attitude design a person. Very few people can sell attitude.
M: Okay. What’s your first assignment in this research company?
R: It was funny. I got an ice cream band called paddle pop. Paddle pop has a character.
M: I know they have some cartoon characters.
R: I was told to design the next story for paddle pop.
M: Oh!
R: I am designing a methodology for paddle pop.
M: You have so many things in you and you are designing an ice cream cartoon.
R: I have to research kids for that. For me, every act energizes me. I wanted to know who is the hero and villain for kids. What is happening between them? I had to study all of this. It brought me back to the roots of understanding human behavior. I have done every project of mine. I wanted to know who is the human and what is his story. You can make anything with it. These are not strategies. These are stories. It is a story-crafting process.
M: You are not only doing for the brand. You are helping individuals. Tell me about that idea.
R: Some of my friends come to me and told me about my asking process. He wanted some answers from his life. I asked about his question. What do I do with life?
M: This is the common question.
R: It is a midlife crisis. They told me that it was a very boring question. You cannot ask me the question. That was one kind of question. I faced this idea of mental health that hit me hard. The disability today is depression.
M: Yeah!
R: Where does depression come from? It is an ability to catch the harmony about yourself. It is like I am not happy with what I am. You are not synced with it. How can a terrorist be born?
M: Brainwashing.
R: Brain can destroy you or can build you. A lot of people say they don’t know what to do in life. A school student also things like that. Children are doing suicide. This is psychological stress. That is eating people. I am damn lucky to work in a zero-stress place. I walked into that place and I saw a thousand dead people over there. Can you imagine you are spending like this? I cannot work like that. There are few working places over there like this. What is the biggest epidemic in this world? It is Monday.
M: Yeah I know.
R: If money is not the thing 80% of people will not go to work. When I have started seeing the layer of crisisā¦ I have seen it in my own life. I have started realizing that the crisis is only getting worse. It is not impacting the people, it is impacting society. A father is not healthy in the mind, a child cannot be. He is impacting the family. It is a chronic social problem.
M: Modi Ji also talks about it in the broadcast. Mental health is a huge problem in India.
R: Huge! I just want to start a conversation. I feel listening is a must. I cannot change the landscape of mental health. I can talk to them. They can give themselves sympathy. That would cure a lot of problems. Loneliness is a huge issue. Similarly the idea of isolation. You might be in the middle of a crowd but you still feel lonely. You can feel isolated. You have always lived someone else’s life. Most of us do that. That’s what happened to me. I have believed someone else’s life. That’s what reality was. When it hit me hard I flipped. You will search for yourself when something happens.
M: There is one common symptom in every cancer patient is mental stress.
R: Actually, you don’t deserve that. In religion, there are many monks back by the way. What is a saint? In English, it is as agitation. Always look for Shanti Shanti. We are searching for peace.
M: Some people just cannot sleep. So peace is missing.
R: I think we must do something about that.
M: Let’s find peace.
R: You should design a game called peace.
M: We are launching a gaming platform called games good. There are some games good for your mind and memory. I will send you.
R: you should start self-awareness as well.
M: I think self-awareness is also important.
R: I want that codes.
M: I always try to find the hacks. What are the shortcuts? There is all complicated survey. You must have 3 shortcuts.
R: There are no shortcuts to this.
M: There must be some hacks.
R: I think one of the greatest inventions in life is a diary. I think journaling is a great thing. If you ask me generally, the shortest hack is journalling. Spending time with yourself in the morning.
M: So, what do you do?
R: Most people do not go for journaling because they do not know how to handle the conversation. I threw a question into that. You can’t talk unconsciously. Carl Jung is a very famous psychologist. He understands everything. The animal inside you is doing all of this. It’s all coming from a psychic. It all depends on your behavior pattern. He said he just want to talk to a psychic. He just wants to go deeper. If I could change my name what could it be? That is a very beautiful question.
M: You question yourself every day.
R: Every day I throw a question at me. Over a period you could see the pattern. You don’t have to be a psychologist to know all of this.
M: Your general is to ask a question to yourself. You will get the answer every morning.
R: Ask a tricky question to yourself. I asked about my next adventure.
M: If you don’t have the answer what would you do?
R: That’s the difference that will create between your psychological and rational self. We all are rational somewhere. If you ask what would your favorite food. It is impossible to don’t know the answer. If I could go on a holiday, where would I travel? There are a thousand destinations. Which one would you pick?
M: Japan.
R: This is a data mining process. You will have the answer. These all are simple questions. You just have to ask the question which you know. If there are 3 songs on your iPod which three will be? I am sure you have the answer. There is big data.
M: Don’t you run out of questions?
R: There is infinity. I have thousands of these questions in my book.
M: So you play Kaun Banega crorepati with yourself.
R: Yes. I only ask one question to myself. I don’t give myself time to answer it. The trick is to use an hourglass and turn it around. Before the sand drops, you have to answer the question. It comes from your additional side.
M: Rationale is always kind of a thing.
R: There is a justification. (Inaudible) there is an interesting thing in the answer. Some incense wildlife conservation and climate change. You have 100 dollars to give it. To whom would you give it? These all are simple questions. There is an epidemic and human values are dying. You have power and you have to preserve one value. Which one it will be? There is a value vault. Vishal you have a v for your grandkids to access.
M: Respect.
R: There are so many values. You have picked up only one. I think there is a reason behind that. That’s the part we have to talk to.
M: You are accessing the operating system.
R: It is richer of the awareness of the operating system. You must accept it. That is the awareness for me. It is not about self-awareness. There is no benefit with it.
M: Everyone says you have to leave every emotional string. You have to empty your mind. Some Baba Ramdev tells something like that.
R: If you love it then you can do it. That is an exorcism. You need your life where it needs you. Play the game and play well.
M: How is this going to help people? How does it help them?
R: Mental health helps with anxiety. It is a design crisis. I am not synced externally and internally. That is the mental health problem. That is the most basic thing. You have to merge. You have to know yourself to solve it. You will start finding us to live that life. Where does addiction come from? Where does anxiety come from? Where do fantasies come from? Mental health comes from that place. There are certain mental health issues traumas andall.
M: There are PST and stuff like that.
R: Sometimes it starts from nowhere. It is growing and growing. You can work on that. Go out and do something. Four principles keep you going. Fantasies are like there is no pressure on you.
M: You can’t fake it.
R: I am this person. If you are faking it then, it will create anxiety. Do it with your confidence. You must find who you are. You have to find what gives you joy. One monk told me that. You know that is simple. That is one line answer. It energizes you. You meet a person and he energizes you. If you have a job that energizes you then, that is for you. I always think about that.
M: Oh!
R: If you left with more energy then go back to that.
M: You have to be the force for others.
R: Energy is a big force. It is a psychological concept. Energy, mastery, authenticity, and purpose. You have to have a goal. You need to go for a bigger goal. You beg yourself higher than this.
M: That’s how we introduce Karma point.
R: You are giving shape to a movement. What is the purpose of that movement?
M: We announced last week’s edition of the GOQii family plan. You can also join your entire family in the plan. They are already people who are assigned to their families. One person making a change is difficult. As a family, they could change much more.
R: One will encourage the other.
M: families are more likely to succeed than the individual. So we have launched the family plan.
R: (Inaudible) you know that fitness community that goes for the box.
M: CrossFit.
R: They are actually inside of the community. If you’re an addiction problem, it creates a family around you. Crossfit unlocks the power of the community.
M: There is a core value of GOQii. We would not recommend eating anything to anyone that we are not doing.
R: You are the brand.
M: That’s really what you do.
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M: All big brands in the world are chasing you. What is missing? Why are these brands losing out?
R: They have forgotten humans in the equation. So the capitalism is the model. Somewhere human is missing. There is a need for meaning. Baba Ramdev is a meaning maker. He is selling meaning. He is not selling oil and toothpaste. He is selling an ideology.
M: Ayurveda and Indian.
R: Whatever it is. They have an only purpose which is profit. There is no other purpose. There is a Patagonia.
M: Patagonia is a huge thing that happens with the environment.
R: Environmental company is selling clothes. It is not a clothes company that is selling environmental issues. It is an environmental company. I encourage the brand who thinks they were existent in life. You are in a business of purpose.
M: You are just chasing off your idea. There is the biggest competition. It is laziness.
R: We are fighting inertia. We have something designed for that. You are talking in a human quote. Your purpose will lead you to profit. There is nothing called CSR. It is the purpose that drives.
M: Terms.
R: You can say Unilever. There are more powerful bands. I respect it a lot. He stands up for his goals. He cut down plastic by 3%. It is beautiful. You have to just acknowledge it. It is the point of truth for a business. You have to do that if you want to.
M: What do you do actually?
R: I have a different answer to that. I mind for insights. I am the person who looks for data.
M: What does it mean?
R: I want to know in a story. My job is to find that. If you give me tons of data I started looking for the inner story. I look for the pattern.
M: How does that translate back into the product? Give me an example.
R: I can prototype it for you. I want to build a house dash. I have no idea. I said Vishal let’s talk about yourself. What is homemade for you? A home place for yourself. I will talk to your family. I will not talk to you. I will talk to you kids. Can I spend the time-traveling allowed with you? I ask myself. Basically, I am hanging around to understand. What life does Vishal live? What is Vishal’s idea? Where does he feel so stressed? What is the relationship with kids? (Inaudible) I have the idea inside of Vishal to do the architect. I am not just looking at the materials. If you are (Inaudible). if you look for symmetry in your lifeā¦ I will ask you the question. In another workshop, I will bring all this together. It genuinely resonates with you. I can make a blueprint of a house for you. I can make a blueprint for your breakfast. I can make a blueprint for your next job. I could make a blueprint for your life. Let’s blueprint our life for the next time. Everything is that same space. Let’s understand who you are as a person. I could do it for Vishal. I could do it for 15,000 people.
M: You are not planning to launch an app.
R: The goal is to make a journey with their life. My goal is to turn them a little inside.
M: Read your own biography rather than anyone else.
R: It is the game of introspection. Play the game of introspection. They ask a question about them. They give you a personality type. It is like your zodiac sign. That gives you surface-level ideas. That doesn’t take you down. This one would be like you discover your own thoughts. There is no pattern. You will think why am I saying this. (Inaudible) you have to discover about yourself every day. Your life is changing constantly. You are not a starting map. You are a moving map.
M: The same question could have different answers.
R: Before you meet your kids you will not know Joy have an expression. Before losing your legs you will not know what being handicapped means. We all are handicapped. On the positive side and the negative side life keeps training us every day. Evolution is about knowing more about yourself.
M: In this whole area of Facebook. Fake news is coming and there are modes brainwash. In this generation, the reality is on social media. There is also a question about the ethics of social media. How does it influence? How does wan disconnect ourselves from the ill effect of the influence of Facebook?
R: It is a question that I struggle with personally. It is not an easy answer. It is a deep crisis. People are running on social media because family structures are broken. There is a deeper reason for that. I have respect for that. Our attention is being treated. When it is a manipulation that is my concern. There is a fact that you could actually design the way you think about it. It bothers me a lot. It is an ethical dilemma. I want to trade with my thought. If this is the only input that I am getting and I am not reading books, I am not connecting with my inner minds. Social media is my only feed. All idea is designed around that. They are designing it ball by ball. You could call it machine learning. My constant is about manipulation. I would not want to be a part of the journey. As a designer, I would take a trans mint. We would not want to engage. The next option is to watch more Netflix or meet a friend. That is how it’s designed. Now I know you are getting lonely. Don’t watch the next one and go and meet a friend. There is an app when you say, are you lonely? Let’s have a beer. I feel that would be a good way. If I could design conversation in the same social media. Facebook could be a part of offline and online interaction. People coming together. Mother and father having a conversation. There is tremendous respect for that. The same Facebook says don’t keep watching me. Go and do something. I will encourage that.
M: You have started auto-playing videos.
R: I could activate many other things. You are just activating my attention. The monitoring model is based on attention. Everyone is fighting for attention. The business model is based on attention. It is not on behavior. If the business model is based on the behavior, that would be monetized. It is purely based on attention. If you are paying attention to them, they will do that. Facebook says it will switch off. Patagonia is a good example. Patagonia says do not buy my clothes. They mean it. We will make it so good. We will repair it for you. They celebrate if you longer use their clothes they are happier. They are celebrating with the people stitching tone Patagonia. They send trailer trucks to repair that. Imagine this business model. When they say don’t buy this jacket, they mean it. Similarly, it is Facebook. You don’t have to sit and watch this. Then I would love social media.
M: In today’s world people are struggling to write a one-page resume. Give me five ways to write a five-page resume. You have 180 pages. Not everyone can do that.
R: You could only ask four questions. Who are you, what is your mastery, and what’s your mission? On this one page. Who is the truth in a simple way? Who is authentically you? You will feel it at the end of it. What is the one thing you have the excellence? It doesn’t have to be a job or physics. It could be a simple thing. You can say I am a great father and I am a great musician. You have to find your mastery. Japanese has a documentary on zero. He has a mastery of Sushi.
M: Obama had to get wait for 2 years. It is insane. I saw a restaurant outside because I didn’t have a reservation. I took a photo. That is how it is.
R: They celebrate mastery for me. This is not the game-changer. He is telling sushi but he represents mastery. It is important to find yourself. It is important to find your joy. Joy is above happiness. It is bliss. You feel good about yourself. For someone, It is traveling on music or anything.
M: People want to feel good now.
R: It is not a feel-good factor it is stimulation. You can have a cigarette for that. You can have alcohol and feel stimulating. That is different from the energy. You know the difference. You can meet your friends and have a conversation.
M: Why are you still not above somewhere? You are having millions of followers. They are listening to you and following you.
R: I will tell you something very controversial. The thing that stops me is the priesthood. It is clinically destroyed. They are in the power position in the business. Their business model is based on power. It is not about healing. The at about followership. They will do anything like Facebook. I want to take your attention and I will commercialize that. I don’t see any difference between the others. True coaches are away from that. Business models are based on not being around. It is like how far I can go from you. It is called the native school of teaching. (Inaudible) If you come back again you will find the answer. Guruji will say the same. If you come back that time, you will say you have got it. The fourth time you will not come.
M: Because you found the answer.
R: That is the true coach. You are your Guru. That is why I can discourage anyone. You have to find your answer for yourself. My job is to unlock the insights.
M: You are giving this same quality to everyone.
R: You just have to acknowledge that I have the power. The urge is more important. (Inaudible) many people would do it differently. You can find Ramakrishna paramahamsa. He wanted to know who is God. You meet God every day. I want to know about it. Ramakrishna gave the hack. He went to a riverbank with him. (Inaudible) he put his head in the water. The kid was struggling there. He pulled him up back. He was angry at that time. Ramakrishna asked have you seen God? He was answering that he was not thinking about God. He was thinking one thing. He just wanted to live. He said when you have the urge find God. That is desperation. The hack is your desperation.
M: The hack is there is no hack.
R: I have to solve this problem.
M: How do you make people do this? MBA schools and training people to be business managers. How can more people get into self-discovery? How can be their Guru?
R: My hack is to create pain before it happens.
M: How do you do that?
R: You have to create the crisis before it happens.
M: How do you create that?
R: You create a crisis and you ask a question. You don’t have an answer for that. You can create a scenario. You can play the scenario session.
M: You are at 7 and can you just get a heart attack. What’s your plan?
R: That is the question I’m looking for. You have to create a crisis. You are your biggest enemy. You are scared of meeting yourself. You are scared of yourself. As a coach, I will meet you with yourself. Meet your crisis beyond anything. It is like dar ke aage Jeet hai. You will find that joy. You are hiding of that year. When it hits you, you don’t know how to handle it. I would rather build it in you. When it hits then you have something to do. Create your crisis.
M: Which is what I do all the time. It is like creating chaos. What is the next chaotic thing you will do after this?
R: There are so many out there. One of the goals is to design an algorithm. I’m trying to solve self-awareness. That is the chaos. I made that guy, Mang. He left me with that thing.
M: This guy is from Hong Kong.
R: This guy is from Singapore. He is Google employee number 9. He runs a program called search inside yourself. I want to design Google for yourself.
M: There is a company that is trying to put your intellectual thoughts. I forgot the name of the thing. Your mind gonna survive on a computer if your body dies. Is it similar to that?
R: They can transfer you intellectually and physiologically. They don’t know how to transfer the psychological aspect of you. I may transfer all the things you think. I can transfer the anxiety and relationship. I don’t know if you can transfer that. Don’t think the gue part of life. Some people are trying it out. I have heard about this app. It is trying to decode your memory. It reflects your innermost anxiety. If you can’t express yourself then, it shows up in your dreams. These guys are designing a product where you could record your dreams. You can record your dreams every morning. People can analyze those dreams. They things what will happen in the future.
M: I also get some sense of deja vu. I have seen it somewhere before that. Then I think I have dreamt about it.
R: Yes. Dreams are the projection of what you want to see.
M: You are going to create a search engine for yourself.
R: It is far away from that. The human matrix is the most complex. That would be a joy for a lifetime. I learned it early in my life.
M: Mastery is important.
R: Mastery is very very important.
M: Have you found your answer which are you looking for?
R: It is a very nice question. When you hold a compass it shows North way the time. It always shows North East. You can be anywhere. You are not at a crossroads. Wherever you are you can walk to North. I have my anxiety. I have my challenges. I know that I am holding a compass somewhere. I know where North looks like.
M: Do you know where are you going?
R: Yes. I know where my North is. Maybe I am slow at it. The journey could be anxious.
M: In life, you need a compass, not a map. There is no map.
R: There is no map but you need a compass.
M: Everybody wants to know how do I go from point a to point b? There is no map. There is a compass only.
R: We need to hold our emotional compass. You have to anchor around it. I am holding my compass in my hand is a very secure thing for me.
M: You also talked about different layers about who am I. There is another side also which you talked about it. You want people to answer that.
R: There are 3 levels. It might be the spiritual site.
M: you know the answer for that.
R: That is a very irrelevant question. I do not want to talk about it. I do not want to enter that space. I feel it is stupid.
M: There are different kinds of who am I.
R: You have to find your way. Jesus went for his search. Buddha went for his search. Let’s not get there. You have to feel the spiritual journey of your own. You will find your mythology and you will find your God. That is a different journey from who am I. The world is very important. I cannot mix one with the other. The third point is the material body. I am a diabetic. I am suffering from chronic depression. There are three eyes of spiritual, physiological, and emotional. There are three different things. One should not treat the other with this respect. Each one is to be respected in their way. I call it transponding and living. You have to live this life. Climate change is important. The body is planning to die. You can build temples but the planet is destroyed. My target is to find a home where you live physiologically, emotionally, and spiritually. You have to find all three homes. My focus is on the second one. That is emotional home. I want to find my emotional meaning. In that, you will find tranquility.
M: How do people know if they are lost?
R: Anxiety. It is the single biggest trigger.
M: Most of the time I find people just angry. They are screaming and shouting at the signal.
R: This is the inner anxiety. They are not listening to anyone. They are listening to their shouting. This is where we are. We are unhappy with the surroundings. If I am claustrophobic and you are putting me in that situation, what is the natural reaction? If you push me a little bit at that point, I will shout. That is what happens.
M: I have seen a person in the US. He is driving and saying slang every 2 minutes. He is giving it to himself.
R: You will start doing it yourself. Some people get angry but it diffuses immediately. That anger is very different. They don’t carry it. They just blow up and blowdown. That is stress and you feel it. Hesitation means stress, and stress means and variety. The source point is I don’t enjoy myself.
M: Everybody in this world can do it. Of course, it will help you to build it. We call it the story.
R: We have not given it a name.
M: Your company is called a story company.
R: That’s the word we do for it. That helps you to find your story. It is in you. You have to find it. It is not a storytelling app. It is stories finding app.
M: It is the story of you. I want to ask you a few other interesting things. What are the three questions everybody should ask themselves?
R: There are four important questions. The first question is who I am. What my Joy is. What my mastery is. What my mission is. If you have answers to the four questions, you will do it.
M: Which are the 4 books that every comment people should read?
R: You are asking a book lover. I would go back to the Gita.
M: I have tried to read the Gita couple of times. Is there any simple version of Gita?
R: I genuinely like to read Swami Partha Sarathy. He is the simplest. It is the easiest to consume. It is the easiest without losing the essence. It is a phenomenal book. It will help people like us. The language is also very simple. There is another gentleman called Ravi Ravindra, who write Gita. He is a physics teacher in Canada. He was written a book on Gita. I would say it from the bunch of others. (Inaudible) I would pick up Swami Parthasarathi’s book and Ravi Ravinder’s book. That is very very. I would call it very contemporary. I feel every person must read that. It is a small book but it is impactful. L
M: Oh!
R: The undiscovered self by Carl Jung.
M: Hmm.
R: It will take you on a journey. These books are my favorite. It will find you different relevance. One takes me on a spiritual journey.
M: You can carry that everywhere.
R: I live very minimally. I always carry my campus shoes. I know you also do that. I always carry a personal thing which I am going to share with you. I have never shared it with anybody. My uncle was my big mentor. He told me. (Inaudible) it says you are the chisel. You are the stone, and you are the sculpture. This was a gift from my uncle. That gives me so much energy. Those are beautiful words. He passed away a few years back.
M: Was the same guy with NASA? He was the guy who is with NASA for seven years.
R: He was doing the documentary on Neil Armstrong
M: He must be The pioneer of that.
R: He brought ECG into India. (Inaudible) he was a big influence in my life. He brought spirituality and science.
M: I can imagine the gift he was given you. It is close to my favorite quote which is if you think you can you can.
R: Yes. This is always the same. I carry it always with me.
M: What technology do you own?
R: Nothing. The phone is a boring technology. My technology is a very sophisticated idea. I carry quality thoughts. I think of that technology. These are very dumb kids’ stuff.
M: Do you use any apps?
R: I don’t use any apps except the news.
M: You are off social media.
R: Yes. I am just lazy to do it. I value my time a lot. Everything must be based on something. It must be valuable but it has its meaning. Spending time with my family is meaningful for me. I always think about my business. I have limited time. I am never bored by the way.
M: The most expensive thing in the world is time. There is a limited time for everybody in this world. I think people just don’t value it.
R: I value time a lot. My struggle is also with that. How do I optimize myself?
M: How do you do that?
R: That is my silence in running. Another thing is also my family.
M: You have moved to Singapore. How does it feel like? How do you feel about the country which looks like a shopping mall?
R: I live in a Jungle in Singapore. It is brilliant because it is clinically amazing. The country is a big shopping mall. (Inaudible) then you will create a painting. If you live in Bombay then you will get tired at the time you reach home. In Singapore, I run after that. I love going back to Singapore. I love the silence. There is noise at various levels. There is very little theatre. Everything is predictable there. I also think that I can predict my mind.
M: You are living in a laboratory.
R: I can be creative in that. I can focus on something. That is very precious.
M: If you could change one thing in your life, what would that be?
R: I would have created a crisis early in my life. The young man who is working with me. He becomes an entrepreneur at the age of 26. I took extra 7 years for doing that.
M: That how the vaccine works.
R: There is an amazing story in Mahabharata. Krishna asked people for a gift. Kunti said, ” give us a little bit of pain.” I think that is an interesting idea. I would think my son to face it.
M: Hmm.
R: I would not want to be around him to face it. I wish the world has more wizards. You could find it.
M: What is happening in Korea and America? I think they feel a lot of crisis coming around. I think everybody will remember you. It is being a pleasure to have you in my show. I have learned a lot myself. I will have a few more answers about myself when we will meet next. Everybody will start finding themselves. Their operating systems.
R: It has been such a joy with you.
M: Thank you! Bye!
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